Boston Gal's Open Wallet

Interesting! I was just chatting with my husband about solar panels. Our house gets a LOT of sunshine (the construction paper art on our fridge fades quickly)and I've always had a tiny desire to live off the grid ...

I will be following your story!

 

I would *love* to install solar panels on our house! Unfortunately, that wonderful sun is causing the paint on the side of our house to peel, so vinyl siding is our next big purchase. I will also be following your story...I'm so envious :)
As a side note, my husband is stuck in Boston tonight. He was supposed to come home to Wisconsin tonight from a business trip, but, as I'm sure you know, all flights have been canceled. :(

 

Hi Becky,

Sorry about your husband being stuck, but at least he gets to enjoy Boston for one more night :)

Yes, we had quite the fun commute home this evening. Gotta love the first snow storm of the season.

I am excited to be moving forward with the solar panel purchase - keeps my mind on the sun during these cold and dark winter days!

 

If you decide to move some place else, would you be able to recover your costs when selling the house? I personally would have doubts about a purchase which will pay itself in 19 years. I do not know if I will be in my current home by then. In any case, with all your wise choices up until now, I am sure, you have calculated everything well enough to go ahead with this.

 

It will be interesting to read about your experiences with solar panels. It is great to hear that you are making this decision for the earth.

 

2 thoughts: 1) if a lot of your KWH is going to heating your water then it may financially be better to just get a solar water heater (w/ evacuated tubes) - a lot cheaper and more efficient 2) also figure in costs of batteries - that is how you get screwed over time - and people always forget to factor in maintenance costs on solar 3) also find out from grid what happens with your excess (because realistically you will be generating electricity during the day which goes to the grid, then syphoning off the grid at night).
Personally, I don't think solar (except for the water heater) is a good investment - and it also doesn't necessarily help the earth (CO2 costs of developing/manufacturing solar panels for you).

 

Congratulations. That's great. The previous post makes me wonder whether it will make sense to convert to an regular electric water heater once the system is place, even if not directly heating the water, b/c your electric will be cheaper. Just thinking aloud.

 

Hi T'Pol,

I hope to keep this home as a long term dwelling or investment. But if I did have to sell, it is unclear to me if the solar panels would be a help or a hindrance for the property. On the one hand, the home with solar panels will appeal to the green buyer or the person concerned with utility costs. If the price of electricity continues to rise the panels could be a plus. However, if "going green" should fall out of favor or if electric prices fall these could be considered a negative. Also they will not appeal to every buyer.

Hi Anonymous,

No, my home water heater is gas powered and it is tied into my furnace. If I had an electric tank now it would have been the most cost effective solar step to take - but would be too expensive for me to undo my current set-up.

My system will not have batteries. I am still connected to the grid and my state has net metering laws which means my electric meter will spin backwards when I am producing more power than using. That extra power gets credited to my monthly electric bill at retail rates. So no need for me to store my excess power in batteries.

My solar panels, inverter, etc. will all be sourced from a local manufacturer. Their manufacturing process is considered one of the most "green" among solar panel producers. So yes, my panels do need to be manufactured and that will have an impact on the environment, but I am also hopefully helping to support local business and technology development.

 

Kudos to you for being in a financial situation that allows you to comfortably purchase something you feel is very important, even though it might not make the most sense money wise. I see your purchase as a reward for all the careful financial planning you have done. I'll look for blog updates on the installation.

 

Hi Boston Gal,

I agree with the person that says a solar water heater may be a better investment right now. More insulation would be a good investment too.

Solar cells are starting to be made by huge companies and the price of them should be continuing to fall. It may be prudent to wait.

However, if having solar cells bring you pleasure and you want to splurge then all is well!

 

Oooh, I"m so jealous!!!!! (and I mean that seriously. I would love to put up solar panels!)

 

It makes more financial sense to buy 11K of some sort of green fund, even a lousy one. Heck, it makes more financial sense to donate the 11K right now and take the tax write off this year and let the (11K*your tax rate) grow. In that respect, your solar panels are a sports-car-like status symbol.

I am thinking about what will happen when you sell your house. If you sold it now, I am not sure solar panels would be much of a selling point, people might even freak about maintaining them. I really don't know. But maybe in ten years, they'll be more normal, and it would be like the house coming with an awesome sports car. :)

 

Hi Douglas,

I did think about waiting for prices to drop, but a funny thing happens - rebates and incentives drop as well. Kind of like how you used to get a tax credit for buying a Prius, but that has gone away now...

As it is, with the current deal I am getting the cost of panels themselves pretty much rebated back to me. It is the cost of labor, installation, permitting, etc. that I am paying for (part of the price includes upgrading my current electrical service from 100 amp to 200 amp). I looked into other installations in my area, and people who put these up a few years ago actually got more panels and paid less for them because of higher rebates and incentives. Plus, since electric rates have continued to rise the payback period for them keeps getting shorter.

So I am not fully convinced that waiting for potential price drops is worth it. I have the money now, I have the desire to do it now, and my current home is well positioned to take advantage of the technology.

But I do recognize that is a big expense. But by being frugal in other areas I am able to splurge in this way.

 

A couple of folks have mentioned the maintenance aspects of owning solar panels. There is really not a lot you need to do once they are installed. If you want to get the absolute best performance from them at all times, you can go up on your roof and wash them. I noticed Ed Begley Jr. in the "Living with Ed" HGTV show seems to do this a lot with his panels. But when talking to the installer about this, he said it is likely because Begley lives in smoggy LA with little rain fall.

My installer said his customers in Massachusetts do not need to wash their panels. Once the system is installed it just works. No real maintenance needed.

Wind turbines are another matter. They require periodic maintenance - probably because it is a much more mechanical system - those gears and such. Solar panels just lie on your roof and produce power when the sun shines on them...

 

You may be better off waiting another year or two for Nanosolar, especially if you want to support new solar technology development. It's too late to be an early adopter for standard PV technology at this point.

 

Hi BG - you just got a mention for your purchase on Make Love Not Debt blog!

Congrats on your decision - it's something we considered here, especially since we have electric heat (before every gasps in horror, our expenses have not been too bad, but still ...). I'll be following your story, too!

 

Fabulous, BG! Hope the process goes well!

What does your tenant think? Is he excited?

 

I am glad that you are going with what you really, really want. Your responsibility entitles you to get whatever "geeky" thing you like, and I think solar panels are an awesome choice!

 

That is SOOOOOO cool you are doing that! It's much better for the environment and your sharing it in this forum makes the prospect more accessible to folks who may have never considered it. Kudos to you! Our commitment to the earth, in any capacity, large or small is our insurance for future generations. Your example may lead others to do the same.

Jerry
www.leads4insurance.com

 

Wow, I am surprised by the large number of detractors on this. I didn't realize purchasing solar panels was such a controversial choice. I wonder if remodeling the kitchen has the same kind of connotations?

First of all, investing in a green company rather than buying green...not sure how that would be beneficial.

Second, I do not believe that the manufacture of solar panels cancels their worth. That kind of energy-saving cancel happens when creating hydrogen fuel cells -- not solar panels.

Third, if we always waited for the cutting edge "just around the corner" nobody would buy any kind of energy-saving device. I think BG should be commended for making such a great choice! I mean, look at a kitchen remodel -- it makes the kitchen look pretty, sure, and raises the worth of your home. But solar panels reduce greenhouse gas emissions, and in 19 years, when that remodel looks "dated," the solar panels will still be producing electricity. Taking the long view is to be commended, and BG does it, which is why I read this every day.

Lastly, we have been looking at purchasing solar panels and buying a Prius for several years, and BG is right -- the incentives go down, not up. Pretty soon we, too, will just have to bite the bullet and do it.

Congrats, BG. I must say I am delighted you took such a non-conventional route for your big purchase, and I can't wait to hear all about it.

 

Don't forget to add in the extra charge roofers will charge you.

If you have a yard, they do make containers for the panels that are supported by poles that go in the ground (panels don't have to go on the roof). I don't know if it would be cheaper to go this route or not, but you wouldn't have to go up on the roof in snow and ice to clear the panels.

Also, don't forget to discuss this with your insurance agent. If you'll be paying someone to regularly clean/clear the snow/ice, then you'll want good liability coverage. You also want to make sure you raise your coverage to include the solar panels. This will mean slightly higher premiums, but $11,000 shouldn't add more than a few dollars.

How exciting! We live in an apt and can't go all out like you, but we do have the small solar chargers for computers and cell phones (we live in Hurricane Alley). And we're excited about those small things! I can't imagine your excitement. Congrats!

 

My small house is located on a small lot of land. While I get great sun, it really is focused on my roof - so roof panels it has to be.

The snow should burn off the panels, so I don't anticipate having to clear them. Same goes for ice. I may lose a bit of power generating time while the snow/ice melts, but again, not a big deal. You really don't have to baby them.

I had not thought about the insurance aspect. I will have to place a call to my agent and see if this will impact my homeowners policy.

I did find out that placing solar panels on your roof can't trigger a residential tax increase. It can't be counted as an improvement. I believe that is true in all states - something the solar industry lobbied Congress for and got. Now, if I had improved my kitchen and/or bath my property taxes would definately have increased...

 

I wouldn't say I'm a detractor. Everyone agrees this is a lousy investment. I would say the same thing to BG if she wanted an 11K Rolex--you've worked hard and should enjoy your money so spend it on what you want.

Even a Rolex is a better investment, as you know that it is going to be worth more than 0 in 19 years and won't be obsolete.

I spend $10-$15/month extra for my local power company's wind power plan. Of course, I don't have shiny panels to show off to the Joneses. But if that's what you want, BG, do it.

 

BG,
From one whacked financial nerd to another..."you go girl!" I'm at once envious and impressed.
Anon-Dallas

 

Vicki,

I believe the Rolex watch (as well as all wrist watches) are already obsolete. Anyone who invests $11,000 in a Rolex today might also be intersted in the eight track player I purchased in 1982 or better yet the gold pocket watch my Father received in lieu of a pension...

Folks who installed solar heating systems back in the 70s are still using them today. I assume BGs pv solar panels will still be around and working in 30 years.

 

Awesome, admirable choice of how to spend your $$$! Hope it goes well, but let me know of any technical problems (my solar panel installing friends can help).

 

You're a girl after my own heart. If we have enough money when we renovate we will be installing solar hot water and photo-voltic cells, maybe even a wind turbine.

- Pam

 

it is really not a good investment financially - if you invest 11k in an index fund you will be way better off in 19years... unless of course the cost of heating triples or quadruples...

 

I don't know if you actually did this, and I know this is an old post but I just wanted to let you know it was likely a good financial investment and don't let the naysayers say otherwise.

There are a couple reasons why. First is that electricity has been going up at about 6%/yr and is expected to do so for the next 20 yrs. Everyone says PV costs will go down in the mean time, but the reality is that is only true for the panels, which only make up half your cost (installation, inverter, rack, etc is the other half and won't go down).

Another thing is that your return in savings is a tax free return. You don't report it as capital gains with any other investment return.

Due to these factors and some others you need to do your financial analysis on a 25yr "LifeTime" basis rather than your break-even point. Even after that 25 yrs your system should be providing at least 80-90% of the original power, still saving you at that point $100's per month.

Lastly, within the last 10 years everyone that has sold a home with solar PV has got their investment back and then some - so in the meantime you just got free electricity. Remember if it saves you $1000/yr then that's $1000/yr more in the buyers pocket which is the equivalent of $20K less off the cost of the mortgage (so far as the payment is concerned).