Boston Gal's Open Wallet

From your post:

you will never be this young, beautiful, thin, athletic, etc., again. Take advantage now! Spend and enjoy while young - you will thank yourself later.

My response:

I think this is key. The concept of "delayed gratification" is all but dead . It's as if when you get older, you suddenly won't want anything anymore....you'll be content to sit at home in your rocker. But I think you may need to spend more in retirement to keep yourself stimulated. And working in old age may not be an option.

Another reason I think many people don't save is peer pressure. You touched on this. We had a circle of friends that we finally had to give up on because it just got too expensive to maintain the friendship. They weren't content to go to someone's house to have dinner. It was all about going out to expensive restaurants and wearing the "right" (read expensive) clothes and driving the "right" SUV, etc. We also didn't have the big vacation home at the beach, so that made things even worse. We felt like the poor relations when we were around them.

 

What amazes me is how Madison Avenue has come up with those "Spend to Save" credit cards. Just keep spending money America. Look, just as we made spending easy we are now making saving easy! What a load of BS!

If America really wanted to save they would tell Bank of America and American Express and all of the other corporations that came out with these things to keep their pennies in matching funds and sub-par interest rate saving accounts. Cut up the cards and save yourself untold thousands!

 

Scrooge wasn't the Villian because he was frugal. Scrooge was the villian because he let his love of money be the controlling factor in his life. Scrooge did not use his resources to help others, nor did he take the time to enjoy life.

For most people today however being called a Scrooge should be a badge of honor, because the term Scrooge is used by peeers and families and advertisers to make you buy more.

 

"Spend and enjoy while young"

I planned a mini-weekend vacation a few months ago and my boss suggested some places to visit. When I told him I would consider which fit my budget, he looked at me like I'd called him a dirty name! He, too, thinks "you're young, enjoy yourself!"

With an attitude like that, no wonder people don't enjoy their (empoverished?) old age, they spent it all when they were young!

I just don't understand it. It's not like I completely abhor spending (I was taking a day off, wasn't I?) it's about spending in moderation and relative to your means. It's fine if you plan and save for enjoying yourself but geez, who wouldn't be bitter about recklessly blowing a few months' salary on a few days?

 

People talk a lot about "delayed gratification." Implicit in that phrase is the acknowledgement/agreement that you CAN'T receive gratification right now while still holding on to your money.

Instead of "delayed gratification," people need to discuss "substituted gratifiation," "alternative gratification," or "creative gratification." As I've become more frugal I've learned something that Americans need to get into their heads. Life can still be as fun without spending money. Period, end of story.

 

Hey John M,

I was wondering if someone was going to call me out for the Scrooge comment...

I agree, he was a nasty piece of work. But now someone is called a Scrooge if they turn down the thermostate a few degrees (compare that with Scrooge who gave his workers one piece of coal to heat the office for their 12+ hour shift).

But I do think Scrooge had some surprisingly good qualities - you just have to look at him and them creatively.

This December 2004 Slate article puts up a pretty entertaining defense of old Scrooge - What I Like About Scrooge, In praise of misers.

 

It's quite possible, though, to take delayed gratification to the opposite extreme.

I spent my early-to-mid 20s digging out of credit card & student loan debt. During that time, I found ways to talk myself out of buying anything (with the exception of food--I love eating at hole-in-the-wall, authentic Mexican places). I've spent the last few years building up a retirement account (I didn't have one while digging out of debt, which is probably a good thing, as I missed the great crash of 2001) and saving for a house...and am finding that my ability to talk myself out of spending money is hindering my life a bit.

I consider myself a wanderlust...but have talked myself out of taking a vacation NUMEROUS times (a real one: traveling to see my parents for the holidays so does not count as a vacation). I say to myself "you're probably the biggest Anglophile out there who has never been to England". Then I think "the $2,000 I'd spend could boost the downpayment fund/will be worth $30,000 in 40 years/could build the emergency fund buffer/give it to my church." And I don't buy the plane tickey.

So I'm debt-free, with an e-fund, a down payment fund, and a healthy retirement for my age, but am also a complete miser. The bank account gets bigger, but, in some ways, my life gets smaller. It's a big conundrum for me; at this point, I just hope to make it to England before age 50 (I'm 30 now).

 

In response to randomosity, who hasn't taken a vacation:

You've been investing in yourself by paying off debt and doing everything right. You are WORTH a great vacation! Investing in your Anglophile hobby with a one-time trip to England will make you a more well-rounded person. And clearly, you'll be able to stick to a budget once you allow yourself to set one.

 

I agree with the fact that Scrooge had some good qualities, that would have benefited society. Not wasting resources is a noble quality.

However Scrooge's fear of being financially poor. Made him poor in all of the other areas of his life.

The point of making sacrifices should be to get what you want out of life.

 

randomosity, your comment hits me deep where my soul dwells. I too have become more prudent, but I see my personality changing. Don't misunderstand me: I am pinching the pennies and rightfully so. But I fear that I am slowly morphing into Scrooge...and I don't like it one bit.

Boston Gal, your blog and Single Ma are daily reads! Anyone who can blog about personal finance and topsy turvy tomato plants earns a bookmark!

 

I agree with Randomosity and Chica,

You can take frugality too far and deny yourself too much. I can be guilty of spending money on everyone else but myself. For me, the trick to spending money on myself is starting the planning process. Once I know how much that trip to England will cost, it is easier for me to start thinking about spending the money for it.

If I just keep it as a nebulous "Expensive Vacation" I will never go for it. However, if I know my two week trip will cost X for airfare, X for hotels, X for theater tickets, X for meals, etc. etc. I can start budgeting and planning for the expense.

The other trick is to try to find another Anglofile to plan with or look for group tours if traveling solo. Having someone else spuring you on to take the trip will generally mean the trip will be taken!

 

I'm surprized, with all of the Scrooge Talk that I didn't see anyone talk about "The Financial Wisdom of Ebenezer Scrooge" (http://www.hci-online.com/Engine/Shopping/catalog.asp?store=5&item=13888&itemonly=1)

It's a good book... it goes into the emotions of our financial lives. In the end every spending decision has a lifetime of emotions behind it.

The book also talks about how Bob Cratchit goes overboard with his little Christmas extravaganza. He was the antithesis of Scrooge and had his own sub-conscience money problems.

 

I heard a good phrase the other day.
"Don't live within your means. Spend within your means, but don't LIVE there."
Live bigger, associate with those smarter, more spiritual, wealthier, happier, healthier, more athletic, etc. than you. Talk with them, listen.
Learn from their wisdom.
"Invest" and afternoon with one of them. You'll be glad you did.